Helping State Agencies Build and Modernize Integrated Data Systems
Danny Torres in conversation with Baron Rodriguez and Sean Cottrell
Sean Cottrell:
At DISC, our primary focus is to help states modernize their data systems to support evidence-based policymaking. We really seek to serve as thought partners, helping triage the root of the problem and helping states understand the unique needs, and then really helping spotlight how are other states doing this. This is not new. We do not need to reinvent the wheel, but there is not a one-size-fits-all approach that really meets any particular state’s need.
Danny Torres:
Welcome to Leading Voices, a podcast brought to you by WestEd, a national nonprofit, nonpartisan research, development, and service agency. This podcast highlights WestEd’s leading voices shaping innovations and applying rigorous research in ways that help reduce opportunity gaps and build communities where all can thrive. I’m Danny Torres, and I’ll be your host.
Today, we have on the program Sean Cottrell and Baron Rodriguez, two data systems experts. Sean is the director at WestEd’s Data Integration Support Center, or DISC. He provides strategic oversight, and he’s a senior subject matter expert on privacy law and governance. He also serves as partnership director for the center, seeking opportunities to advance the development of integrated data systems.
Baron is DISC’s executive director. For more than 20 years, Baron has led data integration efforts with a specific focus on privacy, architecture, security, and governance. His experience spans across government, nonprofit, and commercial organizations and across sectors, including education, criminal justice, and social services. And he’s a national expert on FERPA, the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act.
In this episode, we talk about the center and why integrating data systems across sectors is important and sometimes challenging. Ensuring data privacy, in particular, is top of mind for students, families, and communities. DISC helps public agencies address and overcome challenges by providing comprehensive technical assistance and resources. They also provide legal support, legislative analysis, and more. And many of these services are provided at no cost. Sean and Baron, it’s great to have you on the podcast.
Sean Cottrell:
Thanks, Danny. We’re excited to be here. We always enjoy the opportunity to talk about the work we’re leading through DISC, and we’re even more excited to talk about the impact we’re having in the field.
Baron Rodriguez:
Yeah, thanks for having us, Danny. Really appreciate it.
Danny Torres:
All right, let’s get right to it. So, Baron, can you tell us about the data Integration Support Center at WestEd? How did it all get started?
Baron Rodriguez:
Yeah, thanks, Danny. So DISC was started really to provide assistance to agencies as they’re working on their data integration efforts. And of course, each state has a little bit different approach to it. But most states, at this point, are really trying to go beyond just the education spectrum because they realize that there are a lot of what we call last-mile linkages that are critical to help really inform the information and really translate the information that you’re getting back.
You get grades back, but there can be a variety of factors that really play into that. And that could include everything from your interactions with your social service caseworker or if you… if kids are going to school hungry. There’s a lot of additional information that really factor into how someone’s doing in school, and then what happens to them when they enter into the workforce. So, we realized that in order to be able to link this work, one of the biggest barriers were some of the legal and technical challenges associated with those last-mile linkages.
And that was actually discussed years ago at the US Department of Education. We were sitting around a table and kind of looking at everything that we had done, and we’re really proud because we’d gotten a… FERPA regulations had come out, and we had provided guidance that hadn’t been provided in years, but we realized there was still a gap out there. And even though the Privacy Technical Assistance Center, which I had founded and been part of at the very beginning, did a lot of good work, we realized that there was still more that needed to be done.
And so, one of the things that we thought about was can we address some of the gaps that include social services, human services, workforce agencies, and other public agencies to really give a full view of the impact of the education data ecosystem? And we realized that after several conversations with education leaders at the state level, at the local level, the states were dealing with their own issues, which included the enacting of their own state privacy laws, but we weren’t allowed to touch those at the Privacy Technical Assistance Center because, of course, we were working with the federal government.
So states still needed help in that area. So there were gaps, not just sectorally, so social services versus education, but there were gaps as it relates to their specific laws, something we really couldn’t help with at the time. So that’s really what laid the foundation was the good work that PTAC did, but then kind of saying, “Okay, that’s really not enough if we really want to see the whole person and really find out behind the scenes of what’s going on.”
Danny Torres:
All right. Sean, maybe you could talk a little bit more about what DISC does and how the Center is different from other technical assistance providers. And could you tell us a little bit about the five areas of support you all focus on?
Sean Cottrell:
Sure thing. At DISC, we provide resource and subject matter expertise related to integrated data systems, or IDS, wherever those IDS are in their development. We provide support through five focus areas that we have identified as the biggest gaps in IDS modernization, planning and user-centered design, external legal expertise, legislative analysis, system security, and privacy. How did we end up with those five focus areas? We identified these five areas as causes for many of the last-mile challenges that slow down the progress of IDS implementation and modernization.
And by last-mile challenges, we’re really referring to those difficulties encountered in the final stages of implementation, typically involving the actual use and delivery of the system. This includes issues like user adoption, data quality concerns, data access restrictions, and ensuring that the system really meets the specific needs of the end-users in each partner agency. And our experts at DISC are able to support any of these five areas. We really have a broad scope of support, and we really focus on policy and legal assistance to states diving into the intersection between state and federal law.
We also have multi-sector expertise. Lately, states planning or who are already modernizing their systems are really looking to other sectoral data to better inform policy decisions. And that includes expanding beyond just the current focus of early childhood through post-secondary and into the workforce. But it also includes social service, revenue, health, justice, and other administrative data. We really aim to develop the frameworks of support for states to continue to pursue data systems that really meet their own unique needs.
Danny Torres:
It sounds like the center offers a great service for states. Now, the pandemic exacerbated several existing and persistent problems, including, for example, student chronic absence, mental health challenges, and disparities in academic achievement, and historically marginalized and underserved students were affected the most. Why is the work you all are doing at DISC so important right now as the country confronts these issues?
Baron Rodriguez:
Danny, I love this question because it personally hits home for me. I have a foster child. He’s grown now. But when you think about the concept behind addressing equity, it includes a lot of that information that you just discussed, right, mental health care, social services. For instance, his interactions with his social worker. And as you matriculate from K-12 into post-secondary, into workforce without having that additional information, not only will you not really understand that person’s journey, think of the possibilities to be able to help those populations with the additional supports that could be there for them if you knew that maybe they weren’t getting certain services that they were eligible for or that they could use.
And I think, sometimes it’s very easy to just give the lazy answer, “Well, the schools are failing our foster children.” There’s a lot more that goes into it being a foster parent, knowing that there were a lot of different things that were going on with my son. And if you don’t have a full idea of what those supports are and what are needed for specific individuals going through these various supports, it could be really hard to identify whether, for instance, social services were to provide mental health assistance or tutoring or other supports that may be very, very helpful to help those individuals work their way through life’s challenges. I think it’s really something that’s a gap, but many times, what we hear is that, “Well, there’s a legal reason why we can’t do this, or there’s a technical reason it’s hard to link this information together.” And really that’s why we’re here. The DISC Center is here to help address those very issues that we’ve been hearing for so many years.
Danny Torres:
So, integrating data systems can have a meaningful impact on how states and local education agencies can provide adequate services for families and communities. Sean, can you give us some examples of how this work is being done and with who? What does this work look like?
Sean Cottrell:
Yeah. We work with states in a variety of ways. In one state, DISC support involved reviewing a data-sharing agreement between the state’s integrated data system or the IDS lead and their data-contributing partners. That effort led us to moderate a discussion with the IDS lead and their reluctant partner to get to the root cause of the partner’s hesitation, and ultimately, a misunderstanding of federal privacy law was causing the holdup.
Massachusetts, for example, is currently pursuing two pieces of legislation intended to reinforce the state’s commitment to using integrated data for decision-making purposes. The first law is intended to make workforce and labor data more available, and the second is to create an education-to-workforce research agency. We’re serving as thought partners for those legislators and those individuals who are directing those agencies, ensuring that they’re making the right considerations along the planning way.
We really seek to serve as thought partners, helping triage the root of the problem and helping states understand the unique needs. And then really helping spotlight how are other states doing this? This is not new. We do not need to reinvent the wheel, but there is not a one-size-fits-all approach that really meets any particular state’s needs that we found at least.
Baron Rodriguez:
One of the areas that I think of is we are really spending a lot of time with the social service agencies explaining where we’re coming from and what the goals are of these integrated data systems because this concept of multi-sectoral linkages sometimes is foreign to those attorneys or those policymakers or leaders within the various states that are building these efforts. And so even having a conversation with them about what those specific use cases are and then asking them how would this fit into the regulatory structures in your mind?
And kind of changing that paradigm to, “We can’t do this” to, “Explain the why and the how,” kind of changes the tone of the conversation. And that’s really, we’re able to come into those conversations and couch it that way instead of, “Can we do this? Here’s what the state is trying to do. Here are the use cases, specifically. How can we get there and still follow, meet all the regulatory requirements?” Because there’s… No is the simplest answer sometimes, and there are ways to get there. You don’t have to release a person’s name. Sometimes, that’s their concern.
We have to just go through and explain in their language, “We’re not releasing anybody’s name, but we would like to know how foster students do. We would like to know how those who are getting mental health assistance are doing and are they getting the supports they need.” So that’s the conversation. Not, “Can I get Fred’s mental health access records?” That never should be the conversation, but sometimes it can be a very black-and-white conversation if you don’t explain the why and the specific use cases.
Danny Torres:
Baron, in a recent blog post on WestEd.org, you discuss how one-size-fits-all solutions don’t work. Can you tell us why they don’t work and what is a better way forward?
Baron Rodriguez:
So to me, I think that, one, we are the United States of America, so there are many states with different policies, different ways of doing things, and we have to acknowledge that. I think it’s important to understand these are state systems primarily, and therefore, they follow state policies. And yes, of course, there’s federal funding that some states do receive, but we really need to understand what their unique needs and priorities are within the state. And that’s really hard to do with a one-size-fits-all approach. Each state has a different approach, for instance, to their data security and privacy concerns.
Obviously, there are different political concerns depending on the state. There are different budgetary constraints. Some IDSs, integrated data systems, they actually get private funding. There are some states that get foundational funding, right. But not every state has that opportunity. So you can’t just go in there assuming everybody’s at the same place. And I think the other piece is really to focus on some of those common protocols and standards and frameworks for states. So, kind of those guidelines that you put together for them and say, “These are the aspects that you should consider.”
It doesn’t mean they have to check every box, but they’re going to go, “Oh yes, I need to do this one. I need to think about who’s going to be involved. I need to involve the right partners. I need to have a good governance structure in place.” So, it allows us to come in with an approach. So, not coming in disorganized, but allowing these individual states to have some individuality in their approach, knowing that they’re going to have all of these different factors and different kinds of data and priorities than maybe the state right next door to them.
Danny Torres:
Well, Baron and Sean, this has been a rich and interesting conversation. As we come to the end of our time together today, do you have any last thoughts for our listeners?
Baron Rodriguez:
As we wrap up, I do want to answer a question that we frequently get is, “Well, how much does this cost? What’s the catch?” And we are philanthropically funded. This is a free service to public agencies engaged in building secure, privacy-focused, integrated data systems, and really focusing on that local and state need for citizens, policymakers, and individuals providing those services to communities. We really encourage transparency around these systems and employing strong, technical, and legal structures to protect the integrity and privacy of individuals. And our goal is to be that resource that is centered around those principles.
Sean Cottrell:
I echo Baron on all of those points. At DISC, our primary focus is to help states modernize their data systems to support evidence-based policymaking. By addressing issues of interoperability, standards, governance, privacy, and security, DISC intends to set benchmarks nationwide for building integrated data systems.
Danny Torres:
How can our listeners reach you to learn more and to request DISC services?
Sean Cottrell:
There are lots of ways you could get in touch with us. You can always email us at [email protected] or request assistance from our website, which is disc.wested.org, where you can also subscribe to our newsletter, or catch us at an upcoming event, which you can also find on our website.
Danny Torres:
Thank you, Sean and Baron, for being on the program.
Baron Rodriguez:
Thanks. We’ve thoroughly enjoyed discussing DISC with you today. Thanks for taking the time.
Sean Cottrell:
Thank you for having us, Danny. And to our listeners, we look forward to learning more about the good work you are undertaking. Please don’t hesitate to reach out and let us know what you’re doing and if you think there’s a way DISC can help.
Danny Torres:
And thank you to all our listeners for joining us today. And for more information about the Data Integration Support Center at WestEd and its free services, visit us at disc.wested.O-R-G. That’s D-I-S-C.wested.O-R-G. And you could find this and past episodes of the Leading Voices podcast online at WestEd.org/leadingvoicespodcast or on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Pandora, and Spotify.
This podcast is brought to you by WestEd, a national nonprofit nonpartisan research development and service agency. At WestEd, we believe that learning changes lives. Every day, we partner with schools and communities across the country to improve outcomes for youth and adults of all ages. And special thanks to Ellie Kaverman for her collaboration on this episode. And to Sanjay Pardanani, our audio producer. Thank you for joining us. Until next time.